08 — Theme主题

Industries各行各业

17 questions in this theme个问答

# What do you think about the utility industry?

I have thought about that a lot because you can put big money in it. I have even thought of buying the entire businesses. There is a fellow in Omaha actually that has done a little of that through Cal Energy. But I don't quite understand the game in terms of how it is going to develop with deregulation. I can see how it destroys a lot of value through the high cost producer once they are not protected by a monopoly territory.

I don't for sure see who benefits and how much. Obviously the guy with very low cost power or some guy has hydro-power at two cents a KwH has a huge advantage. But how much of that he gets to keep or how extensively he can send that outside his natural territory, I haven't been able to figure that out so I really know what the Industry will look like in ten years. But it is something I think about and if I ever develop any insights that call for action, I will act on them. Because I think I can understand the attractiveness of the product. All the aspects of certainty of users need and the fact it is a bargain and all of that. I understand. I don't understand who is going to make the money in ten years. And that keeps me away.

Lecture at the University of Florida Business School · October 15th 1998

# 你怎么看公用事业行业?

我对这个想了很多,因为你可以往里投很大一笔钱。我甚至想过把整家整家的企业买下来。其实奥马哈就有个人通过 Cal Energy 做过一点这样的事。但在放松管制之后这个行业会怎么演变,这盘棋我看不太懂。我能看到的是,一旦那些高成本的生产商不再受垄断区域的保护,这场变局会怎样摧毁大量价值。

我没法确切看清谁会受益、受益多少。显然,谁手里有非常低成本的电力,或者谁有每千瓦时两美分的水电,谁就占有巨大优势。但他能保住其中多少,又能在多大范围内把电送到自己天然辖区之外,这一点我一直没能想明白,所以我也就真不知道十年后这个行业会是什么样子。但这是我一直在思考的事,如果哪天我形成了某种足以付诸行动的洞见,我会照着做。因为我想我能理解这种产品的吸引力。用户需求的确定性、它本身物美价廉等等,所有这些方面我都懂。我不懂的是十年后谁会赚到钱。正是这一点让我敬而远之。

佛罗里达大学商学院演讲 · 1998 年 10 月 15 日

# What do you think of utilities?

The production of electricity is a huge business and it's not inconceivable that we'd invest heavily here.

The Public Utilities Holding Company Act [PUCA], written in 1935, has a lot of rules about what the parent company of a utility can do. It was set up to check abuses that existed then, so it was appropriate at the time. But I don't think there's anything pro-social about limiting Berkshire Hathaway's ability to acquire utilities today. We might have done one or two acquisitions in past years but for PUCA.

[Regarding the Californian Power Crisis] With deregulation, the incentives [for power producers] were changed such that instead of wanting abundant supplies, they wanted tight supplies, which would result in higher prices.

You can't take utilities with a cost of X, invite new producers in with a cost of 3X, and expect prices to go down.

The old system strikes me as better for society.

[CM: "The old system had the NIMBY [not in my back yard] problem. If you let unreasonable, self-centered people make decisions, you'll get into trouble. We may be making the same mistake today with oil refineries."]

BRK Annual Meeting 2001 Tilson Notes · April 2001

[Re: How Technological Change Might Affect the Utilities Business]

We’re going to earn a return on capital employed whether we transmit it the old way or whether some new way emerges. We strive to serve our customers and keep their costs down as much as possible.

Even in terms of choosing which generating sources we use, we follow the will of the people in the states we serve. If they want to pick a more expensive way to generate for some reason, that’s okay with us. I don’t think anything will change our economics. We certainly don’t buy a utility expecting to do something else with it.

BRK Annual Meeting 2006 Tilson Notes · 2006

# 你怎么看公用事业公司?

发电是一门很大的生意,我们在这个领域重金投入并非不可想象。

1935 年制定的《公用事业控股公司法》(PUCA)对公用事业的母公司能做什么订了一大堆规矩。它当年是为了遏制那时存在的种种弊端而设立的,所以在当时是合宜的。但我不觉得在今天限制伯克希尔·哈撒韦收购公用事业的能力有什么利于社会之处。要不是有 PUCA,过去这些年我们说不定已经完成了一两桩收购。

[谈及加州电力危机]放松管制之后,[发电企业的]激励被改变了:他们要的不再是充裕的供应,而是紧张的供应,因为这样能抬高价格。

你不能一边让成本为 X 的公用事业存在,一边又引入成本为 3X 的新生产商,然后还指望价格往下走。

在我看来,旧体制对社会更好。

[芒格:“旧体制有‘别建在我家后院’(NIMBY)的问题。如果你让那些不讲理、只顾自己的人来做决策,你就会陷入麻烦。今天我们在炼油厂这件事上,也许正在重蹈覆辙。”]

伯克希尔 2001 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2001 年 4 月

[谈及技术变革可能如何影响公用事业]

不管我们是用老办法输电,还是哪天冒出某种新办法,我们都会赚到一份所用资本的回报。我们努力服务好客户,并尽可能压低他们的成本。

甚至在选用哪种发电来源这件事上,我们也尊重所服务各州民众的意愿。如果他们出于某种原因想选一种更贵的发电方式,我们也没意见。我不认为有什么会改变我们的经济效益。我们收购一家公用事业,绝不是指望拿它去干别的事。

伯克希尔 2006 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2006

# In the domestic soft drink model, is it winner take all, or is there room for three competitors?

Sure, there's room for more than one. I think Coke's market share will grow pretty much year after year. We're talking tenths of a percent, but tenths of a percent are important. The U.S. market is 10 billion cases, so one percent is 100 million cases. It's interesting how regional tastes can be: Dr. Pepper may have a far bigger market share in Texas than in Minnesota ... You can make money with a soft drink company that doesn't dominate the business. You can do a lot better with one that does dominate, but it's not winner take all. It's not like two newspapers in a town of 100,000 or 200,000. There are certain businesses that are winner takes all.

BRK Annual Meeting 1997 · May 1997

# 在国内软饮料这门生意里,是赢家通吃,还是容得下三家竞争者?

当然,容得下不止一家。我认为可口可乐的市场份额几乎会年复一年地增长。我们说的是零点几个百分点,但零点几个百分点很重要。美国市场是 100 亿箱,所以 1% 就是 1 亿箱。各地口味之别很有意思:胡椒博士(Dr. Pepper)在得州的市场份额,可能远比在明尼苏达大得多……你靠一家并不主导市场的软饮料公司也能赚钱。靠一家真正主导市场的公司,你能赚得多得多,但这并非赢家通吃。它不像一个十万、二十万人口的小镇上两家报纸那样。确实有些生意是赢家通吃的。

伯克希尔 1997 年股东大会 · 1997 年 5 月

# What do you think of the airline industry?

"The big problem is not aggregate costs, but costs versus competitors." Buffett recalled US Air's difficulties competing against Southwest and concluded, "If your costs are out of line, you're going to get killed eventually."

[Munger: "Airline pilot unions are really tough. It's interesting to see people paid as well as airline pilots to have such a tough union. No airline can afford a shutdown very long."]

If you're in a business that cannot take a long strike, then you're playing a game of chicken with labor. Ironically, if you're weak, you're in a stronger negotiating position.

BRK Annual Meeting 2001 Tilson Notes · April 2001

# 你怎么看航空业?

“真正的大问题不在于总成本,而在于你的成本相较于竞争对手如何。”巴菲特回忆起全美航空(US Air)在与西南航空竞争时的困境,并总结道:“如果你的成本失了控,你迟早会被打垮。”

[芒格:“航空公司飞行员的工会真的很强硬。有意思的是,像飞行员这样收入丰厚的人,工会竟然还这么强硬。没有哪家航空公司能撑得起长时间的停摆。”]

如果你所在的生意经不起一场旷日持久的罢工,那你就是在和劳方玩一场比胆量的“懦夫博弈”。讽刺的是,你越是弱不禁风,谈判桌上反而越占上风。

伯克希尔 2001 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2001 年 4 月

# What do you think of the banking business model?

  • Banking is a good business - many banks earn high returns on tangible equity
  • “Charlie and I have been surprised at how much profitability banks have, given that it seems like a commodity business.”
  • Underestimated how sticky customers are and how unaware they are of fees banks charge them
  • WFC - $4.00 per share after full taxes on $15 of tangible equity
  • If you have a well run bank, you don’t need to be the #1 bank in an area
  • Bank ROA is not highly correlated to size
  • You may have to pay 3x tangible equity to buy a bank
  • Only problem with banks is that sometimes they get crazy and do dumb things...’91 was a good example
  • If a bank doesn’t do dumb things on the asset side, it will make good money
Buffett Vanderbilt Notes · Jan 2005

We've been somewhat surprised at how well banks have done. Some have generated 20% or greater returns on tangible equity over many years, though this is in part due to increasing leverage.

[CM: "We misdiagnosed it and, even worse than that, we haven't changed."

BRK Annual Meeting 2002 Tilson Notes · 2002

Banking, if you can just stay away from following the fads and making bad loans, has been a remarkably good business. Since WW II, ROE for banks that have stayed out of trouble has been good. Some large well-run banks earn 20% ROE. I've been surprised that margins in banking haven't been competed away.

[CM: What you're saying is that we screwed up, because banking has turned out to be better than we thought. We made a few billion [dollars] from Amex while we misappraised it. My only prediction is that we will continue to make mistakes like that.]

It's pretty extraordinary that institutions competing against each other without real competitive advantages can all make high returns. Part of it is higher loan to value ratios than in past years. Some banks get into trouble making bad loans, but you don't have to.

BRK Annual Meeting 2003 Tilson Notes · 2003

Financial companies are more difficult to analyze than other companies. They can report whatever earnings they want – it’s an easy game to play. For banks, earnings depend on loans and the reserves set aside. It’s easy to change and manipulate the reserves.

With a company like WD-40 or a brick company, the financials are easy to analyze. But with financial [companies] it’s tough, especially when you throw in derivatives.

There were very high grade, financially sophisticated people who were on the boards of the GSEs [Government-Sponsored Enterprises, such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac] and they were not negligent, but it’s very tough [to detect the shenanigans that went on].

Charlie and I were on the board of Salomon and Charlie was on the audit committee, and [it’s just impossible to evaluate thousands of transactions]. You’ll just have to accept that with insurance companies, banks and other financial companies – it’s just a more dangerous field to analyze.

With GEICO it’s easier because the statistics are quite accurate – it’s short-tailed insurance. It’s not like asbestos.

I wouldn’t fault the ratings agencies. Even the big-name auditors didn’t catch it.

[CM: Where you have complexity, by nature you can have fraud and mistakes. You’ll have more of that than in a company that shovels sand from a river and sells it. This will always be true of financial companies, including ones run by governments. If you want accurate numbers from financial companies, you’re in the wrong world.]

BRK Annual Meeting 2005 Tilson Notes · 2005

[Q - Small regional banks - what would you look at before you buy?]

WB: It is hard to make a categorical decision about regional banks. So much depends on the character of the institution. It will be a reflection of the CEO you have. A bank can mean anything. It can be an institution that is doing all sorts of crazy things. The Bank of Commonwealth was an example. We owned a bank in Rockford, Illinois, run by Dean Aback—he would always run a super, sound bank. You should know the culture of the management and the institution before making the decision to buy a bank. We own Wells Fargo and M&T, but it doesn’t mean they are immune. But likely they are immune from institutional stupidity. There was a wise man that said there are more banks than bankers. If you think about that a while, you will get my point.

CM: The questioner is on to something. So many large banks have cast a pall over the entire industry. You are prospecting in a likely territory.

WB: If you took the 20 largest and the 20 smallest banks in Florida, I don’t know if you could tell the difference.

CM: It is a territory that has some promise.

WB: That is a wildly bullish statement from Charlie. I may need to go start buying! [laughter]

BRK Annual Meeting 2008 Boodell Notes · 2008

# 你怎么看银行业的商业模式?

  • 银行是一门好生意——许多银行的有形净资产回报率都很高
  • “尽管银行看起来像是一门同质化的生意,查理和我还是惊讶于它们的盈利能力有多强。”
  • 我们低估了客户的黏性,也低估了他们对银行向其收取费用的浑然不觉
  • 富国银行(WFC)——以 15 美元的有形净资产,在全额纳税后每股赚 4.00 美元
  • 如果你有一家经营良好的银行,你并不需要成为某个地区排名第一的银行
  • 银行的资产回报率(ROA)与规模并无很强的相关性
  • 买一家银行,你可能得付出有形净资产 3 倍的价格
  • 银行唯一的问题在于,它们有时会犯起傻来、做出蠢事……1991 年就是个好例子
  • 只要一家银行在资产端不做蠢事,它就能赚到很不错的钱
巴菲特范德堡大学笔记 · 2005 年 1 月

银行的表现之好,多少让我们有些意外。有些银行多年来一直创造出 20% 甚至更高的有形净资产回报率,尽管这其中一部分是靠不断加杠杆得来的。

[芒格:“我们当年误判了它,更糟的是,我们至今都没改过来。”

伯克希尔 2002 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2002

银行业这门生意,只要你能不去追逐时髦、不去放烂账,一直都是出奇地好。二战以来,那些没把自己搞出乱子的银行,净资产收益率都很不错。一些经营良好的大型银行能赚到 20% 的 ROE。让我意外的是,银行业的利润竟然没有被竞争给磨没。

[芒格:你这话的意思是我们搞砸了,因为事实证明银行业比我们想的要好。我们在美国运通(Amex)上误判过它,却照样赚了几十亿。我唯一能预言的是,我们还会继续犯这类错误。]

这是相当不寻常的:一群彼此竞争、又没有真正竞争优势的机构,竟然全都能赚到高回报。这其中一部分原因是如今的贷款价值比(loan to value)比过去高了。有些银行因为放烂账而陷入麻烦,但你大可不必如此。

伯克希尔 2003 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2003

金融公司比其他公司更难分析。它们想报多少盈利就能报多少——这是一场很容易玩的游戏。对银行来说,盈利取决于放出去的贷款和计提的准备金,而准备金是很容易调整和操纵的。

对于像 WD-40 或者一家砖厂这样的公司,财务报表很容易分析。但对于金融[公司],分析起来就很棘手,尤其是再掺进衍生品的时候。

在那些政府支持企业(GSE,比如房利美和房地美)的董事会里,坐着一批极为优秀、精通金融的人,他们并非失职,但要[察觉到背后那些花招]实在太难了。

查理和我都当过所罗门(Salomon)的董事,查理还在审计委员会里,[要去评估成千上万笔交易根本是不可能的]。对于保险公司、银行和其他金融公司,你只能接受一个事实——这本就是一个更危险、更难分析的领域。

GEICO 就容易一些,因为它的统计数据相当准确——这是短尾保险,不像石棉那类业务。

我不会去怪评级机构。就连那些大牌审计师都没能识破它。

[芒格:哪里有复杂性,哪里天生就可能滋生欺诈和差错。这类事情,你在金融公司里见到的,会比在一家从河里铲沙子来卖的公司里见到的多得多。金融公司向来如此,包括那些由政府经营的。如果你指望从金融公司拿到准确的数字,那你就是来错了世界。]

伯克希尔 2005 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2005

[问——小型区域性银行——在买入之前你会看什么?]

巴菲特:对区域性银行很难下一个一刀切的判断。太多东西取决于这家机构本身的品性,而它会是你那位 CEO 的写照。“银行”这个词可以指任何东西,它可以是一家干着各种荒唐事的机构。联邦英联邦银行(Bank of Commonwealth)就是一例。我们曾在伊利诺伊州罗克福德拥有一家银行,由迪安·阿巴克(Dean Aback)经营——他总是把银行办得稳健无比。在决定买一家银行之前,你应当先了解它管理层和机构的文化。我们持有富国银行(Wells Fargo)和 M&T,但这并不意味着它们就刀枪不入。不过它们大概不会染上那种“机构性的愚蠢”。有位智者说过,银行比银行家还多。你把这句话琢磨一会儿,就能明白我的意思了。

芒格:提问者抓到点子上了。太多大银行给整个行业蒙上了一层阴影。你这是在一片大有可为的地界上勘探找矿。

巴菲特:如果你把佛罗里达最大的 20 家和最小的 20 家银行拿来比,我都不确定你能不能分得出区别。

芒格:这是一片颇有前景的地界。

巴菲特:这话从查理嘴里说出来,简直是极度看多了。我可能得去开始买点了!(笑)

伯克希尔 2008 年股东大会(Boodell 笔记) · 2008

# You’ve recently invested in Goldman Sachs and GE. Is the financial sector a good buy right now?

No sector is a good buy unless you understand the business. However, I do believe that there is good value and great opportunity now in the financial sector because it is extremely unpopular. Sector’s themselves don’t make good buys, companies that are undervalued make good buys. You know how to value a business, you project the future cash flows discounted to present and buy with a margin of safety. The earnings prospects need to be greater than the current value. Anything that is unpopular is always great to look at. If I was getting out of school right now, I would take a look.

Q&A with 6 Business Schools · Feb 2009

# 你最近投资了高盛和通用电气(GE)。金融板块现在是个好的买入对象吗?

除非你看得懂这门生意,否则没有哪个板块算得上好的买入对象。不过,我确实相信,金融板块现在有很好的价值和绝佳的机会,因为它眼下极不受待见。板块本身并不构成好的买入对象,被低估的公司才是好的买入对象。你懂得如何为一家企业估值——把未来的现金流折现到当下,再带着安全边际去买。它的盈利前景需要高于当前的价值。任何不受待见的东西,都永远值得去看一看。如果我现在刚毕业,我会去看一看。

与六所商学院的问答 · 2009 年 2 月

# Your opinion of the gambling industry?

I don’t know about which stocks to recommend, but, as long as we’re talking about the legal ones, gambling companies will have a perfectly good future. The desire of people to gamble is very high, including in stocks. Day trading comes very close to gambling. People like to gamble. If there’s a football game, especially if it’s boring, you’ll enjoy it more if you bet a few bucks. The human propensity to gamble is huge.

When it was only legal in Nevada, you had to travel or break laws to gamble, but now states are legalizing it. The easier it is, the more people who will gamble. I bought a slot machine a long time ago and put it on the 3rd floor of my house. I could then give my children any allowance they wanted, as long as it was in dimes, and I’d have it all back by nightfall. I wanted to teach them a good lesson. My slot machine had a terrible payout ratio, by the way. [Laughter]

People will always want to gamble. I’m not a prude about it, but to quite an extent, gambling is a tax on ignorance. You just put it in and guys like me don’t pay the taxes – it relieves taxes on those who don’t gamble. I find it socially revolting when a government preys on its citizens rather than serving them. A government shouldn’t make it easy for people to take their social security checks and [waste them pulling] a handle. It’s not government at its best. I think other [negative social] things flow from [gambling] over time.

Munger: I would argue that casinos use clever psychological tricks [to get people to gamble], some of which are harmless, but a lot of grievous injury has been done. You won’t find a lot of gambling companies in Berkshire’s portfolio. [Applause]

BRK Annual Meeting 2007 Tilson Notes · 2007

# 你对博彩业怎么看?

我不知道该推荐哪些股票,但只要我们说的是合法的那些,博彩公司会有一个相当不错的未来。人们想赌的欲望非常高,连买股票也是一样。当日交易就和赌博非常接近。人们喜欢赌。要是有一场橄榄球赛,尤其是一场无聊的比赛,只要你押上几块钱,看起来就会更带劲。人类好赌的天性是巨大的。

当年博彩只在内华达合法时,你得专程跑一趟,或者去触犯法律才能赌;而如今各州纷纷把它合法化。越是方便,去赌的人就越多。很久以前我买过一台老虎机,把它摆在我家三楼。这样一来,我可以满足孩子们要的任何零花钱,只要是用一角的硬币给,到天黑前我就能把钱全收回来。我想给他们好好上一课。顺便说一句,我那台老虎机的派彩率糟透了。(笑)

人们永远都会想赌。我对此并不假正经,但在相当程度上,赌博是对无知征收的一种税。你只管把钱投进去,而像我这样的人不必交这种税——它替那些不赌的人减轻了税负。当一个政府不去服务它的公民、反而去掠夺他们时,我觉得这在社会层面令人作呕。政府不该让人们轻易拿着社保支票去[拉一把老虎机的手柄、白白挥霍掉]。这不是政府最好的样子。我认为随着时间推移,赌博还会衍生出其他[对社会有害的]后果。

芒格:我得说,赌场会使用一些高明的心理把戏[来诱使人去赌],其中有些是无害的,但也已经造成了大量惨重的伤害。在伯克希尔的投资组合里,你不会看到多少博彩公司。(掌声)

伯克希尔 2007 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2007

# Opinion on the healthcare industry and its costs?

We looked at healthcare costs, which were exploding a few years ago. Workman's Comp costs have risen dramatically, and are huge for us. $6,000-$7,000 per employee. That's in inflationary part of the US economy and we and our employees can't control it.

Health costs will keep growing and we don't have any answers. But Charlie runs a hospital, so maybe he'll have some insights.

[CM: The quality of the medical care delivered, including the pharmaceutical industry, has improved a lot. I don't think it's crazy for a rich country like the US to spend 15% of GDP on healthcare, and if it rose to 16-17%, it's not a big worry.

But if other countries spend 7-8% [of GDP on healthcare] and have good systems, are we getting a good deal?

[CM: We're not on a dollar for dollar basis. But I'm not [troubled by how much we spend].]

BRK Annual Meeting 2003 Tilson Notes · 2003

[Re: The Pharmaceutical Industry]

That industry is in a state of flux right now. It’s historically earned very good returns on invested capital, but it could well be that the world will unfold differently in the future than in the past. I’m not sure I can give you a good answer on that.

[CM: We just throw some decisions into the “too hard” file and go onto others.]

We get paid not for jumping over 7-foot bars but for finding 1-foot bars that we can step over.

BRK Annual Meeting 2003 Tilson Notes · 2003

[CM: A lot of people have made a lot of money selling health insurance. I’ve seen it as Chairman of a central-city hospital [the Good Samaritan Hospital in Los Angeles]. You’re right that there have been a lot of bad ethics. A lot of good ethics, too.

Generally, [investing in the healthcare area] goes into the “too hard” pile – unless Warren’s been keeping something from me.]

No, we’ve never done anything in healthcare.

[CM: You [the shareholder who asked the question] are right though – the worst of the ethics is really bad.]

BRK Annual Meeting 2006 Tilson Notes · 2006

[Re: fixing the U.S. Healthcare System]

Munger: It’s too tough. We can’t solve that one. We try to look for easy problems. We don’t try tough things. Sometimes life hands you a very tough problem you have to wrestle with – not financial problems for us, but personal ones.

If we were looking at a private-sector solution, we’d look for low distribution costs. You don’t want a lot of revenue soaked up in frictional costs, but I don’t know how to do that. If we’re paying 15% of GDP [for healthcare], you’d think someone would figure it out. Maybe this will come up in the upcoming presidential campaign.

BRK Annual Meeting 2007 Tilson Notes · 2007

[Re: Pharma? How do you value the pipeline of drug companies?]

WB: Unlike many businesses, when we invest in pharma, we don’t know the answer on the pipeline, and it’ll be a different pipeline 5 years from now anyway. We don’t know whether Pfizer or Merck, etc, have a better chance, or which of those will come out with a blockbuster. But we do feel we have a group of companies bought at a fair price that, overall, will do well and should offer chances for decent profits. These companies are doing very important things. I could not tell you the potential in the pipeline. A group approach makes sense. It is not the way we would go at banks. If you buy pharma at a reasonable multiple, you will probably do okay 5-10 years from now.

CM: You now have a monopoly on our joint knowledge of pharmacology.

WB: He gets cranky at the end of the day. [laughter]

BRK Annual Meeting 2008 Boodell Notes · 2008

# 对医疗保健行业及其成本怎么看?

我们研究过医疗成本,它在几年前就在急剧膨胀。工伤赔偿(Workman's Comp)的成本大幅上升,对我们来说是一笔巨款,每名员工要 6000 到 7000 美元。这属于美国经济中通胀的那一块,我们和我们的员工都控制不了它。

医疗成本会一直涨下去,而我们拿不出什么答案。不过查理经营过一家医院,所以也许他会有些见解。

[芒格:所提供的医疗服务的质量,包括制药业在内,已经改善了许多。像美国这样的富国把 GDP 的 15% 花在医疗上,我并不觉得疯狂;就算涨到 16%–17%,也不是什么大可担忧的事。

可如果别的国家只花 GDP 的 7%–8%[在医疗上],又拥有不错的体系,那我们花这笔钱划算吗?

[芒格:我们和他们并不是一美元对一美元地去比。但我并不[为我们花了多少而苦恼]。]

伯克希尔 2003 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2003

[谈及制药业]

这个行业眼下正处在剧烈变动之中。从历史上看,它在投入资本上一直赚取很好的回报,但未来的世界很可能会以与过去不同的方式展开。我不确定自己能给你一个好答案。

[芒格:我们干脆把某些决策丢进“太难”那个文件夹,然后去做别的。]

我们拿到回报,靠的不是去跨越 7 英尺高的横杆,而是去找那些一步就能迈过去的 1 英尺高的横杆。

伯克希尔 2003 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2003

[芒格:很多人靠卖健康保险赚了大钱。作为一家市中心医院[洛杉矶的好撒玛利亚医院]的董事长,我亲眼见过这一切。你说得对,这里头确实有大量糟糕的职业操守,但也有大量良好的操守。

总体而言,[在医疗领域投资]会被归进“太难”那一堆——除非沃伦一直瞒着我什么事。]

没有,我们在医疗领域从没做过任何投资。

[芒格:不过你[这位提问的股东]说得对——最糟糕的那部分职业操守,是真的很糟糕。]

伯克希尔 2006 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2006

[谈及修补美国的医疗体系]

芒格:太难了。这道题我们解不了。我们设法去找容易的问题,不去碰那些棘手的事。生活有时会扔给你一个非常棘手、不得不去较量一番的难题——对我们来说不是财务上的难题,而是个人生活中的难题。

如果我们要寻找一个私营部门的解决方案,我们会去找分销成本低的。你不希望大量收入被摩擦成本吃掉,但我不知道该怎么做到这一点。如果我们要[为医疗]支付 GDP 的 15%,你会觉得总该有人能把它理顺。也许这个话题会在即将到来的总统竞选中被提出来。

伯克希尔 2007 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2007

[谈及制药?你如何为制药公司的在研药物管线(pipeline)估值?]

巴菲特:制药和很多生意不一样,当我们投资制药时,我们并不知道药物管线那道题的答案,反正五年后那条管线也会大不一样。我们不知道是辉瑞还是默克等等胜算更大,也不知道它们当中谁会推出一款重磅药。但我们确实觉得,我们以公道的价格买进了一组公司,整体上会表现良好,并且应当能提供赚取不错利润的机会。这些公司正在做着非常重要的事。我没法告诉你那条管线里有多大潜力。采取“一篮子”的办法是讲得通的,但这不是我们对待银行的方式。如果你以合理的倍数买入制药公司,那么五到十年后你多半会表现不错。

芒格:现在,我俩关于药理学的全部共同知识,都被你一个人垄断了。

巴菲特:他到了一天结束的时候就会变得脾气暴躁。(笑)

伯克希尔 2008 年股东大会(Boodell 笔记) · 2008

# Berkshire has invested in several insurance companies, would you go into the health insurance business?

No. Health insurance is so ingrained into national policy that it is a tough business. It’s pretty adversarial. I’m not really that excited about it from a business perspective. I don’t want to write policies with high loan loss ratios. That being said, I would buy the stock of an undervalued healthcare insurer.

Insurance is an interesting business. You know, we underwrote a two year life insurance policy on Mike Tyson. I wanted an exclusion against women shooting him, but they wouldn’t let me.

Q&A with 6 Business Schools · Feb 2009

# 伯克希尔已经投资了好几家保险公司,你会进入健康保险这门生意吗?

不会。健康保险与国家政策纠缠得太深,是一门棘手的生意,对抗性相当强。从商业角度看,我对它实在提不起多大兴趣。我不想去承保那种赔付率很高的保单。话虽如此,如果有一家被低估的健康保险公司,我会买它的股票。

保险是一门很有意思的生意。你知道吗,我们曾给迈克·泰森承保过一份为期两年的人寿保单。我本想加一条除外责任,把“被女人开枪打死”排除在外,可他们不让我加。

与六所商学院的问答 · 2009 年 2 月

# Have you ever considered concrete as an understandable business for investment purposes?

They would have advanced raw materials. How we value a business is what the game is all about. If you cannot value a business, you cannot value a stock. The efficient market theory equates to "nobody knows anything". Investment-finance teaching in the US needs to focus on and not miss the opportunity to promote thinking intelligently about how to invest — and in doing so, the person becomes a better manager.

BRK Annual Meeting 2001 · 2001

# 你是否考虑过,把混凝土当作一门可供投资、又看得懂的生意?

他们大概会有些先进的原材料。我们如何为一家企业估值,才是这场游戏的全部要害所在。如果你没法为一家企业估值,你就没法为一只股票估值。有效市场理论说到底就等于“谁都什么都不懂”。美国的投资与金融教学需要把重心放在、并且别错过这样一个机会上:推动人们去聪明地思考该如何投资——而在这么做的过程中,这个人也会成为一名更好的管理者。

伯克希尔 2001 年股东大会 · 2001

# What do you think of the telecoms industry?

I don't have the faintest idea how to evaluate what telecom companies will look like down the road. I only understand a little of what they do. I suppose if you gave me some information, I could regurgitate it back to you but in terms of understanding their economic characteristics down the road, I don't know. Charlie, what do you know about the telecom business?

[CM: Less than you do.]

Then you're in trouble. I know people will be drinking Coke, using Gillette blades and eating Snickers bars in 10-20 years and have rough idea of how much profit they'll be making. But I don't know anything about telecom.

It doesn't bother me. Somebody will make money on cocoa beans, but not me. I don't worry about what I don't know -- I worry about being sure about what I do know.

[CM: Berkshire in its history has made money betting on sure things.]

We might buy some junk bonds in that business [telecom], and we have, but we expect losses in junk bonds -- though we expect a decent result -- because we're dealing with institutions that have demonstrated problems. In some cases -- not at all with Level 3 -- there are management issues. We expect to have significant losses, and we haven't seen our biggest loss yet, believe me. It's like being an insurer of substandard risks -- you'll have more accidents, but can charge a premium.

We don't buy businesses in which 15 will be train wrecks and 85 will work out OK.

There are all kinds of businesses where you can't predict what they're going to earn, so we try to favor a few where we can.

At Level 3, they are fine people and they acknowledge that they borrowed too much money. I have yet to see an electron and have no working relationship with them at all. I don't know anything about the technology at all, but I understand the people involved. It's of a different sort [of investment] than we usually do, but we're happy we did it.

BRK Annual Meeting 2003 Tilson Notes · 2003

# 你怎么看电信行业?

电信公司将来会变成什么样,我压根儿不知道该怎么评估。它们干的事我也只懂一点点。我猜,要是你给我一些资料,我能把它原样背给你听,但要说真正理解它们将来的经济特征,我是不懂的。查理,你对电信这门生意懂多少?

[芒格:比你还少。]

那你可就麻烦了。我知道再过 10 到 20 年,人们还会喝可口可乐、用吉列刀片、吃士力架,我对它们大概能赚多少利润也心里有数。但电信,我一窍不通。

这并不困扰我。总会有人靠可可豆赚到钱,但那个人不会是我。我不为自己不懂的东西操心——我操心的是,要对自己确实懂的东西有十足把握。

[芒格:伯克希尔历史上一直是靠押注那些十拿九稳的事赚钱的。]

我们也许会买这门生意[电信]里的一些垃圾债,事实上我们也买了,但我们预料在垃圾债上会有亏损——尽管我们预期整体结果还算不错——因为我们打交道的,是那些已经暴露出问题的机构。有些情形下——在 Level 3 身上则完全不是——还存在管理层的问题。我们预料会有相当大的亏损,而且相信我,我们最大的那笔亏损还没露面呢。这就像去为次标准风险(substandard risks)承保——事故会更多,但你可以多收保费。

我们不会去买那种“100 家里有 15 家会出大事故、85 家会平安无事”的生意。

有各式各样的生意,你都没法预测它们将来能赚多少,所以我们尽量偏向那么几家我们能预测的。

Level 3 那边都是些好人,他们也承认自己借了太多钱。我至今没见过一个电子,跟他们在业务上也毫无往来。我对那套技术一无所知,但我了解其中的那些人。这[笔投资]跟我们通常做的不是一类,但我们很高兴做了它。

伯克希尔 2003 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2003

# Your opinion on the auto industry?

[GM CEO] Rick Waggoner and [Ford Chairman] Bill Ford have both been handed, by past managers, extremely difficult hands to play. They’re not the consequences of their own doing, but they have inherited a legacy cost structure, with contracts put in place decades ago, that make it very difficult for them to be competitive in today’s world.

GM and Ford don’t sign long-term contracts to pay high amounts for steel, but that’s what they’ve done with annuity and healthcare payments to employees. The result is such expenses are far higher than that of competitors, so it’s not a fair fight.

GM once had 50% market share, and it’s fallen to 25%. Even if it was still 50%, they’d still be in trouble.

I’m not sure what I’d do if I was elected CEO of GM. It reminds me of what Bill Buckley said when asked what he would do if he actually won his race for New York mayor back in 1965 and he said, “The first thing I’d do is ask for a recount.” (Laughter) Well, that’s what I’d do at GM.

The UAW says, “We have a contract and we have a deal.” GM has set aside $90 billion for pensions and another $20 billion or so for healthcare, yet has a market cap of only $14 billion. That’s not sustainable.... Something will have to give.

If a company had to pay an extra $2,000 per car more for steel, everyone would realize there was a crisis and demand a quick solution, but that’s not happening.

Part of the problem arose because [the actions of previous managements] bore no accounting consequences. Back in the 1960s, companies didn’t have to account for pension costs on an accrual basis, and didn’t have to do so for healthcare costs until the late 80s or early 90s. But those costs are very real...

[CM: Warren just gave a very optimistic prognosis in my view. Just because the full consequences haven’t yet hit, doesn’t mean there isn’t a huge problem. It’s as if someone jumped out of a window on the 42nd floor. As you go by the 20th floor, you’re still OK, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have a real problem. (Laughter)

If I was the President of the U.S., Governor of Michigan or the CEO of GM, I wouldn’t wait. I’d address the problem right now because no one’s coming to save you.]

BRK Annual Meeting 2005 Tilson Notes · 2005

# 你对汽车业怎么看?

[通用汽车 CEO]里克·瓦格纳和[福特董事长]比尔·福特,都是从前任管理者手里接过了一手极难打的牌。这不是他们自己造成的后果,但他们继承了一套遗留下来的成本结构,里头有几十年前就定下的合同,这让他们在今天的世界里很难有竞争力。

通用和福特不会签长期合同去高价采购钢材,但他们在付给员工的年金和医疗费用上,干的恰恰就是这种事。结果就是,这类开支远高于竞争对手,所以这根本不是一场公平的较量。

通用曾经有过 50% 的市场份额,如今已跌到 25%。可即便它仍占着 50%,他们照样会陷入麻烦。

要是我被推选为通用的 CEO,我也不确定自己会怎么做。这让我想起比尔·巴克利(Bill Buckley)当年的话:1965 年有人问他,万一真的赢得了纽约市长的竞选他会怎么办,他说:“我要做的第一件事,就是要求重新计票。”(笑)嗯,在通用,我也会这么做。

全美汽车工人联合会(UAW)说:“我们有合同,我们有约定。”通用为养老金划拨了 900 亿美元,又为医疗划拨了大约 200 亿美元,而它的市值却只有 140 亿美元。这是不可持续的……总得有什么东西要让步。

假如一家公司每辆车得为钢材多付 2000 美元,所有人都会意识到这是一场危机,并要求迅速拿出对策;可眼下并没有发生这种事。

问题的一部分根源在于,[历任管理层的所作所为]当时并不会带来会计上的后果。早在 20 世纪 60 年代,企业不必按权责发生制去核算养老金成本,直到 80 年代末或 90 年代初,才必须对医疗成本这么做。但那些成本是非常真实的……

[芒格:在我看来,沃伦刚才给出的诊断已经相当乐观了。仅仅因为全部后果还没砸下来,并不意味着不存在天大的麻烦。这就好比有人从 42 楼的窗户跳了下去。当你经过 20 楼时,你还好端端的,但这并不意味着你没有一个实打实的大问题。(笑)

如果我是美国总统、密歇根州州长,或者通用的 CEO,我不会再等。我会现在就着手解决这个问题,因为没有人会来救你。]

伯克希尔 2005 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2005

# What's your view of the newspaper industry? versus other media?

People will always want to be entertained and informed, but the choices for doing so were far fewer 50 or 60 years ago. As the years have gone by, technology has produced a variety of new ways to be informed or entertained, but we still only have two eyeballs and 24 hours per day. And any time there’s more competition, generally that’s bad for business.

Newspapers are still highly profitable, especially compared to tangible capital employed, but the outlook isn’t nearly as rosy as it was 20-30 years ago. The audience is going down and that has to erode the economics over time. People also like to talk about how more competition [is good for business, but it’s not true].

At one time, [the major television networks] had a license from the government and were the only three highways to the eyeballs of hundreds of millions of people for advertisers like GM, Ford and Gillette to choose from. But now there are many highways. It’s hard to imagine these businesses [the networks] getting better in aggregate over time.

The key would have been to buy the NFL [National Football League; e.g., content] at inception.

We still own World Book [encyclopedias]. At one time, we sold 300,000 sets for $600 each. The problem is [that with the advent of the Internet] you could get a good bit of the same information without cutting down tress, delivering the books, etc. The problem wasn’t that the product wasn’t worth the money, it’s that people have other alternatives. I don’t see anything that will change this.

[CM: It’s simplicity itself that its future will be way worse than its past.]

What multiple would you pay for a business earning $100 million, which is going down 5% per year, versus the same business with earnings growing 5% per year? I’m not saying those are the numbers I’d use for newspapers, by the way. I do not think newspaper circulation, or ad pages, will be larger in five years – even in areas of the country that are growing [in population].

Newspaper multiples are uncomfortably high if you believe profits are going to decline. Prices today do not reflect earnings declining at 5-6% per year. There’s also the risk that [owners of newspaper businesses] don’t fully recognize the situation and will buy other newspapers at too high a price.

This comes from someone who loves newspapers and couldn’t do without them. I read five newspapers every day. Charlie does too. But people can [do without them]. The decline, if anything, has accelerated somewhat. When they take people to the cemetery, they’re losing readers, but when they graduate from college, they’re not gaining any readers. The virtuous cycle isn’t true anymore, but prices don’t reflect this.

We love them as products and thought they were the greatest of companies with bulletproof franchises. We were wrong.

[CM: I have a greater sin to confess to. I once thought GM was a bulletproof franchise.

But we have a method of coping: we just put it in the “too hard” basket. If something is too hard, we move on to something that’s not too hard. What could be more simple?]

It used to be the easiest business model to understand.

In the 1991 annual report, I wrote about [advertising] preprints, and how there was nothing magical about the newspaper, but that it brought the preprints inside the house. [I’m not sure what Buffett was talking about here – the word “preprint” doesn’t appear in the 1989-1992 annual reports, but his discussion in his 1991 letter of the declining economics of the media business is fascinating and his conclusion was amazingly prescient: “Most media properties continue to have far better economic characteristics than those possessed by the average American business. But gone are the days of bullet-proof franchises and cornucopian economics.”]

It has been interesting for me to watch both direct owners and investors in the newspaper business resist seeing what’s right in front of them. It [newspapers’ superior economics] went so long the other way. You couldn’t make a mistake buying a monopoly newspaper business [meaning a town in which there was only one newspaper] until 1975 or 1980.

[CM: If the technology hadn’t changed, they’d still be great businesses. Network TV [in its heyday,] anyone could run and do well. If Tom Murphy was running it, you’d do very well, but even your idiot nephew could do well.

Fortunately, carbide cutting tools [such as those made by Iscar] don’t have these types of substitutes.]

BRK Annual Meeting 2006 Tilson Notes · 2006

What advice do you have for long-suffering New York Times shareholders and what do you think of its dual-class share structure?

As for the “long suffering”, as you put it, shareholders of the New York Times, I don’t blame the Sulzbergers for what’s happened. [Here is the bio of Arthur Sulzberger Jr., the Chairman and Publisher of the New York Times Co., and here is a 2005 BusinessWeek article about the family, the company and the challenges they face.] We’ve said for a long time that we thought newspapers were overpriced because investors were looking in the rear-view mirror.

As for different share classes [which the NYT has], I own about 30% of Berkshire A and B shares, so there’s no voting difference.

The woes of the newspaper business have nothing to do with the dual-class structure.

Let’s suppose Mr. Gutenberg [Johannes Gutenberg was the inventor of modern printing] in the 1500s [actually 1400s; he lived 1400-1468] had become a day trader or hedge fund manager instead, so that we never had printing. But along came the Internet and cable TV [as we have today]. Now imagine that someone came along saying, “I have a great idea: let’s chop trees down, buy expensive printing presses and buy a fleet of delivery trucks, all to get pieces of paper to people to read about what happened yesterday.” I don’t think we’d be backing him. [Buffett’s point is that if newspapers didn’t exist, no one would create them now.]

It happened that newspapers came first and people have become accustomed to them. They have momentum on their side from the past, but I don’t care how smart you are, you’re not going to be able to do much to reverse their decline.

Some smart guy came to the Los Angeles Times and said he was going to take circulation up to 1.5 million. Well, it’s now at 800,000. I don’t know if even William Randolph Hearst could do much to change this.

The same thing happened to us with the World Book Encyclopedia – its sales have dropped from 300,000 to 22,000.

The companies that have not had dual-class structures have fared just as badly. For example, we own The Buffalo News, and earnings are down 40% from the peak. Despite terrific management and high market share, earnings are going down. It’s a fact of life.

Munger: He said the dual-class structure is intrinsically wrong. It was in the original contract when the New York Times Co. went public. Stamping your foot if you don’t like it strikes me as immature.

Buffett: Sulzberger [Arthur Sr.] would not slash staff and did not follow the typical business school approach – and look at his success. All the others fell by the wayside. I don’t know if 10-15 years from now, the New York Times will be viewed as having played an inferior hand.

The Los Angeles Times will have more trouble monetizing their reputation on the Internet when compared to the New York Times.

BRK Annual Meeting 2007 Tilson Notes · 2007

[Q - Would there be a compelling price at which Buffett would add another newspaper to Berkshire’s portfolio?]

Buffett: There’s an evolutionary situation with newspapers. I read five a day and so does Charlie. We’ll be the last people reading a newspaper, with a land line by our sides. [laughter] Most newspapers in the U.S. we would not buy at any price. Twenty to forty years ago, they were essential to customers and advertisers. They had pricing power, but they’ve lost their essential nature—essentiality has eroded. Erosion accelerated dramatically, and it won’t end based on anything on the horizon. We do not see anything to reverse it. They are essential to advertisers only as long as they’re essential to readers. Ten years ago, the head of The Buffalo News said that on an economic basis, Berkshire should sell The Buffalo News. We could have sold the business for hundreds of millions. Not so today. As long as we’re not losing money forever and there are no union problems, we won’t sell. There are around 1,400 daily U.S. papers, and nobody has found the model that works. We’ll play it out as long as we can.

Munger: One hundred percent right. Monopoly daily newspapers were impregnable. It’s a national tragedy for newspapers to die off. They kept government more honest than they otherwise would be. What replaces it will be less desirable.

BRK Annual Meeting 2009 Bruni Notes · 2009

[Q - Are you still down on newspapers? Ipad and other e-reading technologies – will it end up with contraction in earnings retained by content provider or by distributor?]

WB: When money at newspapers came from advertising – it was on average about 75%, they used to be only game in town, and what a difference that makes, when you aren’t the only game in town. It is very tempting, without substantial circulation, but the math is tough – printing costs are high and distribution is tough. But I don’t understand it, and I can’t make an affirmative decision. [ABC] puts out Fast Facts, I look at circulation of many papers. In Buffalo we were down less than many places. SF Chronicle was down 20%, Dallas too – many people are dropping the paper. World has changed about the essential value of newspapers. Nothing looked more bullet proof than daily newspapers 40 years ago, and that has melted away. It is a form of news and entertainment that has lost its immediacy, it is not the essential place to get information. You looked for stocks and weather and sports – advertisers were there because it was best and only microphone. The problem is self-reinforcing, subscribers leave and advertisers leave too.

CM: Independent newspapers due to accidents of history became dominant in their towns. The world was better because they were strong, because they kept the government in check – they were called the fourth estate. We are losing something that we have no substitute for. I don’t have the faintest idea what to do about it.

WB: Our newspaper hit 300k at peak on Sunday, and now down 100k. Philadelphia, was down 40k in a single year. The advertiser doesn’t need you. Your ability to price evaporates. We met Lord Thompson who owned paper in Council Bluffs. We asked him, “Have you ever been there?” “I wouldn’t dream of it” he said. We asked, “You seem to increase price every year. What can they do about it?” He replied “Nothing, I tell my US managers to price to make 40% pretax and above that it may be gouging.

CM: Politicians are not behaving better as newspapers are weakening. We are going to miss the newspapers’ power.

BRK Annual Meeting 2010 Boodell Notes · 2010

# 你怎么看报业?相较于其他媒体又如何?

人们永远都想得到娱乐和资讯,但在五六十年前,能用来满足这种需求的选择要少得多。随着岁月流逝,技术造出了形形色色获取资讯或娱乐的新方式,可我们仍然只有两只眼睛、每天只有 24 个小时。而任何时候只要竞争一多,对生意来说通常都是坏事。

报纸至今仍然高度赚钱,尤其是相对于所投入的有形资本而言,但它的前景已远不如二三十年前那般光鲜。受众在减少,长此以往这必然会侵蚀它的经济效益。人们还喜欢大谈竞争越多[对生意越好,但这并非事实]。

曾几何时,[那几大电视网]手握政府发放的牌照,是通往数以亿计眼球的仅有的三条高速公路,供通用、福特、吉列这样的广告主选择。可如今高速公路多得是。很难想象这些生意[那些电视网]整体上还会随着时间变得更好。

关键本该是在橄榄球大联盟(NFL,即内容)创立之初就把它买下来。

我们至今还拥有《世界百科全书》(World Book)。我们一度以每套 600 美元卖出了 30 万套。问题在于,[随着互联网的到来]你不用砍树、不用送书等等,就能拿到其中相当一部分相同的信息。问题不在于这件产品不值这个价,而在于人们有了别的替代选择。我看不出有什么能改变这一点。

[芒格:它的未来会比它的过去糟糕得多,这再简单明了不过了。]

对于一家年赚 1 亿美元、盈利每年下滑 5% 的企业,相较于一家同样的企业但盈利每年增长 5%,你各愿意付多少倍的估值?顺便说一句,我并不是说这就是我会套用在报纸上的数字。我不认为五年后报纸的发行量或广告版面会更大——哪怕是在这个国家那些[人口]还在增长的地区。

如果你相信报纸的利润会下滑,那么它们的估值倍数就高得令人不安。今天的价格并没有反映出盈利每年下滑 5%–6% 这件事。还有一种风险是,[报业的拥有者]并未充分认清形势,会以过高的价格去收购别的报纸。

说这话的人,是一个热爱报纸、离不开报纸的人。我每天读五份报纸,查理也是。但人们其实[离得开它们]。这种衰退,如果说有什么变化,那就是多少还加快了。当人们被送进墓地时,报纸就失去了一个读者;可当人们大学毕业时,报纸却没能添上一个读者。那个良性循环已不复存在,但价格并没有反映这一点。

我们爱它们这种产品,曾以为它们是最了不起的公司,拥有刀枪不入的特许经营权。我们错了。

[芒格:我有一桩更大的罪要忏悔。我曾经以为通用汽车也是一项刀枪不入的特许经营权。

不过我们有一套应对的法子:我们干脆把它丢进“太难”那个筐里。如果一件事太难,我们就转去做一件不太难的。还有什么能比这更简单呢?]

它曾经是最容易理解的商业模式。

在 1991 年的年报里,我写到过[广告]插页(preprint),写到报纸本身并无任何神奇之处,但它能把那些插页带进千家万户。[我不太确定巴菲特这里指的是什么——“preprint”这个词并未出现在 1989 至 1992 年的年报里,但他在 1991 年致股东信中关于媒体生意经济效益走衰的论述引人入胜,而他的结论惊人地有先见之明:“多数媒体资产的经济特征,仍远胜于一般美国企业。但刀枪不入的特许经营权和取之不尽的丰厚收益,已成往事。”]

看着报业的直接拥有者和投资者们都不肯正视眼前的事实,这对我而言一直很有意思。它[报纸卓越的经济效益]朝着相反方向运行了那么久。在 1975 年或 1980 年之前,你买一家垄断性的报纸生意[指那种镇上只有一份报纸的地方],怎么买都不会出错。

[芒格:如果技术没有发生变化,它们至今仍会是了不起的生意。无线电视网[在它的全盛期],谁来经营都能做得不错。要是汤姆·墨菲(Tom Murphy)来经营,你会做得非常好,但哪怕换上你那个傻乎乎的侄子,也照样能做得不错。

所幸,硬质合金切削刀具[比如 Iscar 生产的那些]并没有这类替代品。]

伯克希尔 2006 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2006

对那些长期受煎熬的《纽约时报》股东,你有什么建议?你又怎么看它那种双层股权结构?

至于你所说的《纽约时报》那些“长期受煎熬”的股东,对于已经发生的事,我并不责怪苏兹伯格家族。[这里是《纽约时报》公司董事长兼发行人小阿瑟·苏兹伯格(Arthur Sulzberger Jr.)的简介,这里是 2005 年《商业周刊》一篇讲述这个家族、这家公司及其所面临挑战的文章。]我们早就说过,我们认为报纸定价过高,因为投资者一直盯着后视镜在看。

至于[《纽约时报》所设的]不同股权类别,我自己持有伯克希尔 A 股和 B 股约 30%,所以并不存在投票权上的差别。

报业的种种困境,与双层股权结构毫无关系。

假设古登堡先生[约翰内斯·古登堡是现代印刷术的发明者]在 16 世纪[实为 15 世纪;他生于 1400 年、卒于 1468 年]改行去当了日内交易员或对冲基金经理,于是我们从来就没有过印刷术。但接着,互联网和有线电视[如我们今天所拥有的]出现了。现在请想象,有个人跑来说:“我有个绝妙的主意:咱们去砍树、买昂贵的印刷机、再买一队送货卡车,就为了把一张张纸送到人们手里,让他们读到昨天发生了什么。”我想我们是不会去支持他的。[巴菲特的意思是:如果报纸本不存在,今天没人会去创办它们。]

碰巧报纸先出现了,人们也习惯了它们。它们有过去积攒下来的惯性在身后撑着,但我不管你有多聪明,你都没法做多少事去扭转它们的衰落。

有个聪明人跑到《洛杉矶时报》,说他要把发行量做到 150 万份。结果呢,如今只剩 80 万份。我不知道哪怕是威廉·伦道夫·赫斯特(William Randolph Hearst)亲自出马,又能对此改变多少。

同样的事也落在了我们的《世界百科全书》头上——它的销量已从 30 万套跌到了 2.2 万套。

那些没有采用双层股权结构的公司,处境同样糟糕。比如,我们拥有《布法罗新闻报》(The Buffalo News),它的盈利已较巅峰下滑了 40%。尽管管理出色、市场份额很高,盈利还是在往下走。这就是现实。

芒格:他说双层股权结构本质上就是错的。可这是《纽约时报》公司当初上市时原始契约里就写明的。如果你不喜欢就跺脚耍性子,在我看来,这未免太不成熟了。

巴菲特:苏兹伯格[老阿瑟]当年不肯大砍人手,也没有遵循那套典型的商学院打法——可你看看他取得的成就。其余那些人全都半途倒下了。我不知道再过 10 到 15 年,《纽约时报》会不会被视为打了一手糟糕的牌。

和《纽约时报》相比,《洛杉矶时报》要把自己的声誉在互联网上变现,会更加困难。

伯克希尔 2007 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2007

[问——是否存在某个足够诱人的价格,能让巴菲特再往伯克希尔的投资组合里添一份报纸?]

巴菲特:报纸正处在一个演化的态势之中。我每天读五份,查理也是。我们会是最后一批还在读报的人,身边搁着一部固定电话。(笑)美国大多数报纸,我们无论什么价都不会买。在二十到四十年前,它们对客户和广告主都是不可或缺的。它们曾有定价能力,但已经失去了那种不可或缺的本质——这种不可或缺性已被侵蚀。侵蚀的速度急剧加快,而且就眼下能看到的任何苗头来看,它都不会停下来。我们看不到任何能扭转它的东西。它们对广告主不可或缺,仅仅是因为它们对读者还不可或缺。十年前,《布法罗新闻报》的负责人就说过,从经济上算,伯克希尔应该把《布法罗新闻报》卖掉。我们当时本可以把这门生意卖出好几亿美元。今天就不行了。只要我们不是永远在亏钱、也没有工会方面的麻烦,我们就不会卖。美国大约有 1400 家日报,至今没人找到一个行得通的模式。我们会尽量把这局棋撑到撑不下去为止。

芒格:百分之百正确。垄断性的日报曾经是攻不破的。报纸的消亡是一场全国性的悲剧。它们让政府比原本更诚实。取而代之的东西会更不尽如人意。

伯克希尔 2009 年股东大会(Bruni 笔记) · 2009

[问——你对报纸是否依旧看淡?iPad 和其他电子阅读技术——最终会导致内容提供方留存的盈利收缩,还是分销方留存的盈利收缩?]

巴菲特:当年报纸的钱来自广告——平均大约占 75%,它们曾是镇上唯一的生意,而当你不再是镇上唯一的生意时,这中间的差别有多大啊。在没有可观发行量的情况下,[办报]很有诱惑力,但这笔账很难算——印刷成本高,分销也很难。可我看不懂它,也没法做出一个肯定的决定。[ABC 发行公司]发布《Fast Facts》,我看过许多报纸的发行量。在布法罗,我们下滑得比许多地方都少。《旧金山纪事报》下滑了 20%,达拉斯也是——许多人正在停订报纸。关于报纸的不可或缺的价值,整个世界已经变了。四十年前,没有什么比日报看起来更刀枪不入,而这一切已经消融殆尽。它是一种已经失去即时性的新闻与娱乐形式,不再是获取信息的那个不可或缺的去处。你曾靠它看股价、查天气、看体育——广告主待在那里,是因为它是最好、也是唯一的麦克风。这个问题会自我强化:订户离去,广告主也随之离去。

芒格:独立报纸因为历史的种种机缘,在各自的城镇里成了主导。世界因为它们的强大而变得更好,因为它们制约着政府——它们被称为“第四等级”。我们正在失去一种没有任何东西可以替代的东西。我对此该怎么办,丝毫没有头绪。

巴菲特:我们的报纸在周日的发行量巅峰时达到 30 万份,如今已掉了 10 万份。费城那边,一年之内就掉了 4 万份。广告主不再需要你了。你的定价能力随之蒸发。我们见过拥有康瑟尔布拉夫斯(Council Bluffs)一家报纸的汤普森勋爵。我们问他:“您去过那里吗?”他说:“我做梦都不会去。”我们又问:“看起来您每年都在涨价。他们能拿您怎么办?”他答道:“毫无办法。我告诉我在美国的经理人,定价要定到税前赚 40%,再往上可能就算敲竹杠了。”

芒格:随着报纸日渐式微,政客们的表现并没有变好。我们将会怀念报纸曾拥有的那种力量。

伯克希尔 2010 年股东大会(Boodell 笔记) · 2010

# What are your views on the railroad industry?

I don’t think the railroad industry will be a lot more exciting, but the competitive position of the railroads has improved somewhat since 20 years ago. There’s been progress on labor issues and an improved competitive position vis-a-vis truckers. Higher oil prices hurt railroads, but hurt truckers more by a factor of four. What was a terrible business 30 years ago, operating under heavy regulation, has become decent and could be better over time. But it will never be a fabulous business – it’s too capital intensive.

BRK Annual Meeting 2007 Tilson Notes · 2007

# 你对铁路行业有什么看法?

我不认为铁路行业会变得多么激动人心,但与 20 年前相比,铁路的竞争地位已经有所改善。在劳工问题上有了进展,相对于卡车运输的竞争地位也有所提升。油价上涨会伤及铁路,但对卡车运输的伤害要大上四倍。30 年前那是一门糟糕透顶、还要在重重管制下经营的生意,如今已变得过得去,并且随着时间推移还可能更好。但它永远不会成为一门绝佳的生意——它太资本密集了。

伯克希尔 2007 年股东大会(Tilson 笔记) · 2007

# When do you expect to see a return on investment in wind farms and other alternative energy sources?

Buffett: We have the largest wind farm capacity in the country. We are a net exporter of wind energy in Iowa. Iowa has been very receptive and progressive in wind energy. We haven’t raised rates in Iowa in about 10 years. We can use Iowa’s tax credits. We’ve developed a lot at PacifiCorp in wind. You’ll see more and more wind generation by MidAmerican [Energy Holdings].

Munger: Berkshire subsidiaries will be leaders in practically anything that makes sense for utilities. You bought a pipeline in about two hours, didn’t you?

Buffett: A durable advantage is that we can act fast. We went from a noontime phone call to a formal offer for Constellation [Energy] by that evening. It didn’t work out. We don’t ask the lawyers before we do it, we just do it. We can move fast when the time [is right]. We’ve got the money, and we’ve got the managers to handle the properties.

[Comment - If Berkshire has the largest wind generating capacity in the country, somebody needs to tell FPL Group, which makes the same claim. To date, wind power has been the most successful among the alternative energy sources.]

BRK Annual Meeting 2009 Bruni Notes · 2009

# 你预计要到什么时候,风电场和其他替代能源的投资才能见到回报?

巴菲特:我们拥有全美最大的风电场装机容量。在艾奥瓦州,我们是风电的净输出方。艾奥瓦在风电上一直非常欢迎、也很有远见。我们在艾奥瓦大约 10 年没有涨过电价了。我们可以使用艾奥瓦的税收抵免。我们在太平洋电力(PacifiCorp)大力发展了风电。你会看到中美能源(MidAmerican)发出越来越多的风电。

芒格:凡是对公用事业讲得通的事,伯克希尔的子公司几乎都会成为领先者。你买下一条管道,前后大概也就两个小时,对吧?

巴菲特:一项持久的优势就是我们能行动迅速。从中午的一通电话,到当天晚上对星座能源(Constellation)正式报价,我们一气呵成。那笔交易最后没成。我们行动之前不会先去问律师,我们说干就干。时机[一对],我们就能迅速出手。我们有钱,也有能打理这些资产的经理人。

[评论——如果伯克希尔拥有全美最大的风电装机容量,那得有人去告诉 FPL 集团一声,因为它也声称自己拥有同样的头衔。迄今为止,风电是各类替代能源中最为成功的一种。]

伯克希尔 2009 年股东大会(Bruni 笔记) · 2009

# What industry will be the next growth driver in the 21st century and what do you see that supports that?

We don’t worry too much about that. If you’d look at the 1930s, nobody could have predicted how much the automobile and airplane would transform the world. There were 2000 car companies, but now only 3 left in the US and they are hanging on barely. It was tremendous for society, but horrible for investors. Investors would have had to not only identify the right companies, but also identify the right time. The net wealth creation in airlines since Orville Wright has been next to zero. If a capitalist had been at Kitty Hawk and shot him down, would have done us a huge favor. Or look at TV manufacturers. There are hundreds of millions of TV’s, RCA & GE used to produce them, but now there are no American manufacturers left.

If you want a great business, take Coca-Cola. The product is unchanged, they sell 1.5 billion 8 ounce servings per day 122 years later. They have a moat; if you have a castle, someone’s going to come after you.

Gillette accounts for 70% of razor sales at 80% gross margins and it is the same over time. Men don’t change much. Shaving might be the only creative thing they do, like painting the Sistine Chapel.

Snickers has been the #1 candy bar for the past 40 years. If you gave me $1 billion to knock off Snickers, I can’t do it. That’s the test of a good business. You don’t knock off Coke or Gilette. Richard Branson is a marketing genius. He came in with Virgin Cola, we’re not sure what the name means, perhaps it turns you back into one, but he couldn’t knock off Coke. We look for wide moats around great economic castles. Growth is good too, but we prefer strong economics. In the upcoming annual report I have a section titled “The Great, the Good, and the Gruesome” where I talk about these.

Emory's Goizueta Business School and McCombs School of Business at UT Austin · February 2008

# 哪个行业会成为 21 世纪下一个增长引擎?你看到了什么来支撑这一判断?

我们不太为这个操心。如果你回头看 20 世纪 30 年代,没有人能预料到汽车和飞机会把世界改造到何种地步。当年有 2000 家汽车公司,可如今美国只剩下 3 家,而且它们都只是勉强撑着。它对社会是天大的好事,对投资者却是糟糕透顶的事。投资者当时不仅要选对公司,还得选对时机。自奥维尔·莱特(Orville Wright)以来,航空业创造的净财富几乎为零。要是当年有个资本家守在小鹰镇(Kitty Hawk),一枪把他打下来,那可就帮了我们一个大忙。再看看电视机制造商。世上有数以亿计的电视机,过去是 RCA 和通用电气在生产,可如今一家美国制造商都不剩了。

如果你想要一门了不起的生意,那就看看可口可乐。产品一直没变,122 年后的今天,它们每天仍卖出 15 亿份 8 盎司装的饮料。它们有一条护城河;可一旦你有了一座城堡,就总会有人来打它的主意。

吉列占了剃须刀销量的 70%,毛利率高达 80%,而且这种格局一直如此。男人变化不大。刮胡子也许是他们唯一干的有创意的事,就像在西斯廷教堂作画一样。

过去 40 年里,士力架一直是销量第一的糖果棒。如果你给我 10 亿美元去把士力架打垮,我做不到。这正是检验一门好生意的试金石。你打不垮可口可乐,也打不垮吉列。理查德·布兰森(Richard Branson)是个营销天才。他带着维珍可乐(Virgin Cola)杀了进来,我们也搞不清这名字是什么意思,也许是说它能把你变回处子(virgin)之身吧,但他还是没能把可口可乐打垮。我们寻找的,是环绕着伟大经济城堡的宽阔护城河。增长也是好的,但我们更偏爱强劲的经济效益。在即将发布的年报里,我有一节叫《了不起的、好的与可怕的》(The Great, the Good, and the Gruesome),就是谈这些的。

埃默里大学戈伊苏埃塔商学院与得克萨斯大学奥斯汀分校麦库姆斯商学院 · 2008 年 2 月